<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Jun 2, 2007, at 6:16 PM, David Powers wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I am getting really tired of how "MAX-centric" (not to mention</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">mac-centric) everyone who does any kind of experimental (or academic)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">electronic music is. I guess part of my annoyance is that it's</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">prohibitively expensive, especially for a non-student. I can't afford</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">either Max, or a Mac. But I just find it strange how people are really</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">confused when I tell them I use PD instead of Max, and even though PD</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">is free nobody seems interested in using it. Max just has some sort of</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"aura" of being the software you are "supposed" to use.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>i think this really depends on the circles you work in, not to mention country. </DIV><DIV>max seems to be very dominant in anglo-saxon countries and asia, PD more in southern europe, south america.</DIV><DIV>this of course from my completely irrelevant personal point of view ; )</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>i'm a heavy max user, it's my main tool and i rely on it for every project.</DIV><DIV>it's expensive, though with the student discount, it's definitely great value compared to general commercial software.</DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span">i think there are a few reasons people don't move <I>en masse</I> to pd:</SPAN></DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </SPAN>-lack of clear documentation (compared to c74)</DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </SPAN>-the interface seems less friendly</DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </SPAN>-all in all it's more difficult to get into in part due to the image, C74's corporate thing is just more accessible </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>they both have their strengths and weaknesses, which imo are quite different from chuck.</DIV><DIV>things like super collider and chuck are just intimidating because they are text based.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The same thing seems to apply to ChucK, except moreso, because code</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">really intimidates these people. They are really using Max because</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">they learned it in class, first, and second they rely on such a huge</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">amount of pre-built stuff, and may have little understanding of basic</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">coding logic. Now, I don't particularly want to build DSP from the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ground up (I still don't understsand stuff like fft math very well, or</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">basic filters), but working in PD and ChucK has, I believe, given me a</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">much better idea of the logic of constructing generative works from</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">scratch, so much so that I feel I could learn to do it in almost any</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">environment at this point with a little patience. I highly doubt that</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the typical Max user could say the same.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>i don't know about the typical max user, but i tend to seriously disagree on this. </DIV><DIV>all tools of this type (max, pd, chuck, sc,...) really depend on understanding it on every level before you can depend on them.</DIV><DIV>the only exception to this seems to be reaktor.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>best</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>isjtar</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>