Dear Michal Seta, <br><br>I admit I was a bit tired at the end of a long, frustrating week<br>and my email may have been a bit "whiny". I apologise. Here<br>are answers to some of your questions/doubts: <br><br><span style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">
What I don't understand is why do you learn CSound, SuperCollider,</span><br style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">ChucK if all you want to do is use Python?
</span><br><br>Because some of my friends suggested that I do, and I was curious to learn new stuff.<br>For reasons of speed, simplicity and elegance I try to stick to Python. It<br>is not a hard and fast rule so much as an aesthetic.
<br><br><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">The question is a little vague so he pointed you in *one* direction.</span><br><br>I can't begin to see how you could have followed our entire private exchange,
<br>which is very different from the short public summary I gave you. <br><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">I think you are misunderstanding. He is telling you to look into the
</span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">recorder example so that you can see how to capture live audio.</span><br><br>Have YOU looked into that example? It's crawling with reindeers singing
<br>Jingle Bells. <br><br><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">You mean you acquire knowledge through luck? Or am I misunderstanding</span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">
something.</span><br><br>How one acquires knowledge is one's own business. How one can show it off <br>is what seems to be yours. You have some really bizarre assumptions about <br>who I might be and what I might not know.
<br><br><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">Now, do you mean there are only 2-3 new media artists in India?</span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">
Strange. A random Google hit:</span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><a href="http://www.newmedia.sunderland">http://www.newmedia.sunderland</a></span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">.ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm<br>suggests that there are a few more.
</blockquote><br>A random Google search on "Michal Seta" suggests that you probably don't <br>exist, and if you do - your existence is not too consequential for mankind. <br><br>Next time, try selling your work in the art district of Bombay to earn your dinner.
<br>You'll probably run into me, and the only other artist in "new media" who is not<br>even mentioned on that strange and funny website you quote as divine proof. <br><br>"new media", now I wonder what you understand by that phrase. The phrase itself, right?
<br><br><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">Whining is certainly not going to help you. What will help, however,</span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">
is that you think about what you want to achieve, clearly state your</span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">needs, problems and issues and then write to the appropriate mailing
</span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 102, 102);">list.</span><br> <br>You seem to have it all figured out. That is the universal mantra of success, right?<br>Good luck, mate! You're going to need it.
<br><br>-------<br>1/f )))<br>-------<br><a href="http://www.algomantra.com">http://www.algomantra.com</a><br><br><br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/17/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Michal Seta</b> <<a href="mailto:mis@artengine.ca">
mis@artengine.ca</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hi,<br><br>On 9/17/07, AlgoMantra <<a href="mailto:algomantra@gmail.com">
algomantra@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>[snip]<br>> Allow me to restate my objective. I want "to read the sound of a live flute<br>> off the audio port in realtime, and analyse it using Python". Now...<br><br>
What I don't understand is why do you learn CSound, SuperCollider,<br>ChucK if all you want to do is use Python?<br><br>><br>> This is a reply to me from one of the main PySndObj developers:<br>><br>> thinking a little more about this, I think there is no pitch tracker
<br>> there (I need to add one...). So you can try csound:<br>><br>> See that? at least he understood my question somewhat.<br><br>The question is a little vague so he pointed you in *one* direction.<br><br>> Now here's a response from the gentleman at Pymedia:
<br>><br>><br>> Can you please check voice_recorder_player.py or voice_recorder.py<br>> from examples tar ball ?May be it will resolve most of the issues.<br>> He is answering a completely different question! I'm talking about
<br>> intercepting data off a port, and he's talking of recording it.<br><br>I think you are misunderstanding. He is telling you to look into the<br>recorder example so that you can see how to capture live audio.<br>
<br>> I had seen<br>> the example he's talking about but it made no sense in the context.<br><br>Which context? The context of capturing real-time audio? Or the<br>context of doing "an analysis" on the signal. It certainly makes no
<br>sense in the latter but a lot in the former.<br><br>> And I was kinda lucky in that I know what a tarball is<br><br>You mean you acquire knowledge through luck? Or am I misunderstanding<br>something.<br><br>>- most artists
<br>> who dabble in technology come from diverse background. ( I am one<br>> of the 2 or 3 new media artists in India). So I find it odd that when<br>> newbies<br>> ask questions, developers answer very sweetly, but in code.
<br><br>All artists come from diverse backgrounds. And regardless of what you<br>dabble at, you still have to follow the learning path, especially if<br>you want to become somewhat proficient at it. If computers are your
<br>thing, you have to learn some basics about the computer and operating<br>systems and how to use different applications. If you are proficient<br>enough with computers to start coding audio applications in python and<br>
you don't state your background but, instead, you ask a vague<br>question, it is understandable that developers assume that you know<br>what you're talking about. If you need hand-holding, which all<br>newbies of the world need, you have say so and state your problem with
<br>as much precision as possible so that those who would like to help you<br>do not need to do much guess work.<br><br>Now, do you mean there are only 2-3 new media artists in India?<br>Strange. A random Google hit:<br>
<a href="http://www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm">http://www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm</a><br>suggests that there are a few more.<br><br>><br>> Perhaps the truth really is that adc => FFT => dac, which is so simple
<br>> for ChucK etc - has no analog in Python, and people are just too<br>> ashamed to admit that they don't know how its done.<br><br>I never used Python for audio but I would assume that it, in fact, is<br>possible. In any case, I find it hard to believe that after having
<br>learned CSound and SuperCollider you have not been able to achieve you<br>goal of reading live flute and analysing it (I don't know what kind of<br>analysis you want to do and what you want to use the analysis data).
<br>Have you looked at Pure data? <a href="http://puredata.info">puredata.info</a>. Perhaps this is a<br>little more high-level than CSound or SC (or even chuck). Also, there<br>are python wrappers for csound so you can script the csound shebang
<br>with python, if you're so inclined. So, if PySndObj doesn't cut if<br>for you, do it with pyCSound.<br><br>>To use Chuck to<br>> do this, I will need to learn YET ANOTHER LANGUAGE called OSC<br>> or something, which will talk to messages from Python (which are
<br>> messages originating in my phone coming via Bluetooth) so I can<br>> pretty much give up on realtime.<br><br>OSC is a protocol. It should not be needed for such simple task as<br>reading the audio port, analysing the signal and (insert your action
<br>here). However, if you intend to control your computer by messages<br>you type on your phone, you can certainly forget about realtime,<br>unless you're a hyper-fast phone-keypad-typist.<br><br>><br>> I hate Python. Ugh, no! I love it, but I hate where I am with this
<br>> damn project.<br><br>Whining is certainly not going to help you. What will help, however,<br>is that you think about what you want to achieve, clearly state your<br>needs, problems and issues and then write to the appropriate mailing
<br>list.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>./MiS<br><br>><br>> *looks despondently at the wall picture of Lord Shiva,<br>> who has a familiar serpent tied around his neck like a<br>> scarf*<br>><br>><br>> -------
<br>> 1/f )))<br>> -------<br>> <a href="http://www.algomantra.com">http://www.algomantra.com</a><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> On 9/17/07, robin.escalation
<<a href="mailto:robin.escalation@acm.org">robin.escalation@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>> > --- AlgoMantra <<a href="mailto:algomantra@gmail.com">algomantra@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > If you prepare your files and code in advance and then just chuck
<br>> > > the<br>> > > shreds in and out of the VM, it really is a a bit like sequencing,<br>> > > rather<br>> > > than livecoding. And if I change the code in the file, save it,<br>> > > then the
<br>> > > effects don't appear live, do they?<br>> ><br>> > In my little free time that I am spending with ChucK I am trying to<br>> > figure this out as well! The best I get is editing one file while
<br>> > another is playing. This feels more like batch programming than real<br>> > time.<br>> ><br>> > > Maybe i'm missing something freakin obvious, but I'm so frustrated<br>> > > having had to learn Csound, Chuck, SuperCollider and all sorts of
<br>> > > new languages just because Python did not provide me with a simple<br>> > > audio processing module. All I wanted to do using Python was<br>> > > analyse the sound<br>> > > of a live flute playing and plot its frequency, and other
<br>> > > characteristics,<br>> > > straight off the audio port.<br>> ><br>> > It is annoying that no-one has wrapped a decent library for Python.<br>> > But haver you checked out my article on this topic? It could be that
<br>> > if you have simple needs PyMedia or one of the other mentioned tools<br>> > might do.<br>> ><br>> > Surf:<br>> ><br>> <a href="http://diagrammes-modernes.blogspot.com/2007/08/music-control-tools-python-based.html">
http://diagrammes-modernes.blogspot.com/2007/08/music-control-tools-python-based.html</a><br>> ><br>> > -- robin<br>> ><br>> > -----<br>> > Robin Parmar<br>> > <a href="http://robinparmar.com">
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