On 9/18/07, Michal Seta <mis@artengine.ca> wrote:

Thank you for your comments.
This has gone off-topic enough.

./MiS

On 9/17/07, AlgoMantra < algomantra@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Michal Seta,
>
> I admit I was a bit tired at the end of a long, frustrating week
> and my email may have been a bit "whiny". I apologise. Here
> are answers to some of your questions/doubts:
>
>  What I don't understand is why do you learn CSound, SuperCollider,
> ChucK if all you want to do is use Python?
>
> Because some of my friends suggested that I do, and I was curious to learn
> new stuff.
> For reasons of speed, simplicity and elegance I try to stick to Python. It
> is not a hard and fast rule so much as an aesthetic.
>
> The question is a little vague so he pointed you in *one* direction.
>
> I can't begin to see how you could have followed our entire private
> exchange,
> which is very different from the short public summary I gave you.
>
> I think you are misunderstanding.  He is telling you to look into the
> recorder example so that you can see how to capture live audio.
>
> Have YOU looked into that example? It's crawling with reindeers singing
> Jingle Bells.
>
> You mean you acquire knowledge through luck?  Or am I misunderstanding
>  something.
>
> How one acquires knowledge is one's own business. How one can show it off
> is what seems to be yours. You have some really bizarre assumptions about
> who I might be and what I might not know.
>
> Now, do you mean there are only 2-3 new media artists in India?
>  Strange.   A random Google hit:
> http://www.newmedia.sunderland
> > .ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm
> > suggests that there are a few more.
>
> A random Google search on "Michal Seta"  suggests that you probably don't
> exist, and if you do - your existence is not too consequential for mankind.
>
> Next time, try selling your work in the art district of Bombay to earn your
> dinner.
> You'll probably run into me, and the only other artist in "new media" who is
> not
> even mentioned on that strange and funny website you quote as divine proof.
>
> "new media", now I wonder what you understand by that phrase. The phrase
> itself, right?
>
> Whining is certainly not going to help you.  What will help, however,
>  is that you think about what you want to achieve, clearly state your
> needs, problems and issues and then write to the appropriate mailing
> list.
>
> You seem to have it all figured out. That is the universal mantra of
> success, right?
> Good luck, mate! You're going to need it.
>
> -------
> 1/f   )))
> -------
> http://www.algomantra.com
>
>
>
>
> On 9/17/07, Michal Seta < mis@artengine.ca> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 9/17/07, AlgoMantra < algomantra@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > Allow me to restate my objective. I want "to read the sound of a live
> flute
> > > off the audio port in realtime, and analyse it using Python". Now...
> >
> > What I don't understand is why do you learn CSound, SuperCollider,
> > ChucK if all you want to do is use Python?
> >
> > >
> > > This is a reply to me from one of the main PySndObj developers:
> > >
> > > thinking a little more about this, I think there is no pitch  tracker
> > >  there (I need to add one...). So you can try csound:
> > >
> > > See that? at least he understood my question somewhat.
> >
> > The question is a little vague so he pointed you in *one* direction.
> >
> > > Now here's a response from the gentleman at Pymedia:
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you please check voice_recorder_player.py or voice_recorder.py
> > > from examples tar ball ?May be it will resolve most of the issues.
> > > He is answering a completely different question! I'm talking about
> > > intercepting data off a port, and he's talking of recording it.
> >
> > I think you are misunderstanding.  He is telling you to look into the
> > recorder example so that you can see how to capture live audio.
> >
> > > I had seen
> > > the example he's talking about but it made no sense in the context.
> >
> > Which context?  The context of capturing real-time audio?  Or the
> > context of doing "an analysis" on the signal.  It certainly makes no
> > sense in the latter but a lot in the former.
> >
> > > And I was kinda lucky in that I know what a tarball is
> >
> > You mean you acquire knowledge through luck?  Or am I misunderstanding
> > something.
> >
> > >- most artists
> > > who dabble in technology come from diverse background. ( I am one
> > > of the 2 or 3 new media artists in India). So I find it odd that when
> > > newbies
> > > ask questions, developers answer very sweetly, but in code.
> >
> > All artists come from diverse backgrounds.  And regardless of what you
> > dabble at, you still have to follow the learning path, especially if
> > you want to become somewhat proficient at it.  If computers are your
> > thing, you have to learn some basics about the computer and operating
> > systems and how to use different applications.  If you are proficient
> > enough with computers to start coding audio applications in python and
> > you don't state your background but, instead, you ask a vague
> > question, it is understandable that developers assume that you know
> > what you're talking about.  If you need hand-holding, which all
> > newbies of the world need, you have say so and state your problem with
> > as much precision as possible so that those who would like to help you
> > do not need to do much guess work.
> >
> > Now, do you mean there are only 2-3 new media artists in India?
> > Strange.   A random Google hit:
> >
> http://www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm
> > suggests that there are a few more.
> >
> > >
> > > Perhaps the truth really is that adc => FFT => dac, which is so simple
> > > for ChucK etc - has no analog in Python, and people are just too
> > >  ashamed to admit that they don't know how its done.
> >
> > I never used Python for audio but I would assume that it, in fact, is
> > possible.  In any case, I find it hard to believe that after having
> > learned CSound and SuperCollider you have not been able to achieve you
> > goal of reading live flute and analysing it (I don't know what kind of
> > analysis you want to do and what you want to use the analysis data).
> > Have you looked at Pure data?   puredata.info.  Perhaps this is a
> > little more high-level than CSound or SC (or even chuck).  Also, there
> > are python wrappers for csound so you can script the csound shebang
> > with python, if you're so inclined.  So, if PySndObj doesn't cut if
> > for you, do it with pyCSound.
> >
> > >To use Chuck to
> > > do this, I will need to learn YET ANOTHER LANGUAGE called OSC
> > > or something, which will talk to messages from Python (which are
> > > messages originating in my phone coming via Bluetooth) so I can
> > > pretty much give up on realtime.
> >
> > OSC is a protocol.  It should not be needed for such simple task as
> > reading the audio port, analysing the signal and (insert your action
> > here).  However, if you intend to control your computer by messages
> > you type on your phone, you can certainly forget about realtime,
> > unless you're a hyper-fast phone-keypad-typist.
> >
> > >
> > > I hate Python. Ugh, no! I love it, but I hate where I am with this
> > > damn project.
> >
> > Whining is certainly not going to help you.  What will help, however,
> > is that you think about what you want to achieve, clearly state your
> > needs, problems and issues and then write to the appropriate mailing
> > list.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > ./MiS
> >
> > >
> > > *looks despondently at the wall picture of Lord Shiva,
> > > who has a familiar serpent tied around his neck like a
> > > scarf*
> > >
> > >
> > >  -------
> > > 1/f   )))
> > > -------
> > > http://www.algomantra.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/17/07, robin.escalation <robin.escalation@acm.org> wrote:
> > > > --- AlgoMantra <algomantra@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If you prepare your files and code in advance and then just chuck
> > > > > the
> > > > > shreds in and out of the VM, it really is a a bit like sequencing,
> > > > > rather
> > > > > than livecoding. And if I change the code in the file, save it,
> > > > > then the
> > > > > effects don't appear live, do they?
> > > >
> > > > In my little free time that I am spending with ChucK I am trying to
> > > > figure this out as well! The best I get is editing one file while
> > > > another is playing. This feels more like batch programming than real
> > > > time.
> > > >
> > > > > Maybe i'm missing something freakin obvious, but I'm so frustrated
> > > > > having had to learn Csound, Chuck, SuperCollider and all sorts of
> > > > > new languages just because Python did not provide me with a simple
> > > > > audio processing module. All I wanted to do using Python was
> > > > > analyse the sound
> > > > > of a live flute playing and plot its frequency, and other
> > > > > characteristics,
> > > > > straight off the audio port.
> > > >
> > > > It is annoying that no-one has wrapped a decent library for Python.
> > > > But haver you checked out my article on this topic? It could be that
> > > > if you have simple needs PyMedia or one of the other mentioned tools
> > > > might do.
> > > >
> > > > Surf:
> > > >
> > >
> http://diagrammes-modernes.blogspot.com/2007/08/music-control-tools-python-based.html
> > > >
> > > > -- robin
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > Robin Parmar
> > > > robinparmar.com
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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