[chuck-users] how is this "on the fly"?

AlgoMantra algomantra at gmail.com
Mon Sep 17 21:19:04 EDT 2007


Dear Michal Seta,

I admit I was a bit tired at the end of a long, frustrating week
and my email may have been a bit "whiny". I apologise. Here
are answers to some of your questions/doubts:

What I don't understand is why do you learn CSound, SuperCollider,
ChucK if all you want to do is use Python?

Because some of my friends suggested that I do, and I was curious to learn
new stuff.
For reasons of speed, simplicity and elegance I try to stick to Python. It
is not a hard and fast rule so much as an aesthetic.

The question is a little vague so he pointed you in *one* direction.

I can't begin to see how you could have followed our entire private
exchange,
which is very different from the short public summary I gave you.

I think you are misunderstanding.  He is telling you to look into the
recorder example so that you can see how to capture live audio.

Have YOU looked into that example? It's crawling with reindeers singing
Jingle Bells.

You mean you acquire knowledge through luck?  Or am I misunderstanding
something.

How one acquires knowledge is one's own business. How one can show it off
is what seems to be yours. You have some really bizarre assumptions about
who I might be and what I might not know.

Now, do you mean there are only 2-3 new media artists in India?
Strange.   A random Google hit:
http://www.newmedia.sunderland
>
> .ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm
> suggests that there are a few more.


A random Google search on "Michal Seta"  suggests that you probably don't
exist, and if you do - your existence is not too consequential for mankind.

Next time, try selling your work in the art district of Bombay to earn your
dinner.
You'll probably run into me, and the only other artist in "new media" who is
not
even mentioned on that strange and funny website you quote as divine proof.

"new media", now I wonder what you understand by that phrase. The phrase
itself, right?

Whining is certainly not going to help you.  What will help, however,
is that you think about what you want to achieve, clearly state your
needs, problems and issues and then write to the appropriate mailing
list.

You seem to have it all figured out. That is the universal mantra of
success, right?
Good luck, mate! You're going to need it.

-------
1/f   )))
-------
http://www.algomantra.com



On 9/17/07, Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 9/17/07, AlgoMantra <algomantra at gmail.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> > Allow me to restate my objective. I want "to read the sound of a live
> flute
> > off the audio port in realtime, and analyse it using Python". Now...
>
> What I don't understand is why do you learn CSound, SuperCollider,
> ChucK if all you want to do is use Python?
>
> >
> > This is a reply to me from one of the main PySndObj developers:
> >
> > thinking a little more about this, I think there is no pitch  tracker
> >  there (I need to add one...). So you can try csound:
> >
> > See that? at least he understood my question somewhat.
>
> The question is a little vague so he pointed you in *one* direction.
>
> > Now here's a response from the gentleman at Pymedia:
> >
> >
> > Can you please check voice_recorder_player.py or voice_recorder.py
> > from examples tar ball ?May be it will resolve most of the issues.
> > He is answering a completely different question! I'm talking about
> > intercepting data off a port, and he's talking of recording it.
>
> I think you are misunderstanding.  He is telling you to look into the
> recorder example so that you can see how to capture live audio.
>
> > I had seen
> > the example he's talking about but it made no sense in the context.
>
> Which context?  The context of capturing real-time audio?  Or the
> context of doing "an analysis" on the signal.  It certainly makes no
> sense in the latter but a lot in the former.
>
> > And I was kinda lucky in that I know what a tarball is
>
> You mean you acquire knowledge through luck?  Or am I misunderstanding
> something.
>
> >- most artists
> > who dabble in technology come from diverse background. ( I am one
> > of the 2 or 3 new media artists in India). So I find it odd that when
> > newbies
> > ask questions, developers answer very sweetly, but in code.
>
> All artists come from diverse backgrounds.  And regardless of what you
> dabble at, you still have to follow the learning path, especially if
> you want to become somewhat proficient at it.  If computers are your
> thing, you have to learn some basics about the computer and operating
> systems and how to use different applications.  If you are proficient
> enough with computers to start coding audio applications in python and
> you don't state your background but, instead, you ask a vague
> question, it is understandable that developers assume that you know
> what you're talking about.  If you need hand-holding, which all
> newbies of the world need, you have say so and state your problem with
> as much precision as possible so that those who would like to help you
> do not need to do much guess work.
>
> Now, do you mean there are only 2-3 new media artists in India?
> Strange.   A random Google hit:
> http://www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm
> suggests that there are a few more.
>
> >
> > Perhaps the truth really is that adc => FFT => dac, which is so simple
> > for ChucK etc - has no analog in Python, and people are just too
> >  ashamed to admit that they don't know how its done.
>
> I never used Python for audio but I would assume that it, in fact, is
> possible.  In any case, I find it hard to believe that after having
> learned CSound and SuperCollider you have not been able to achieve you
> goal of reading live flute and analysing it (I don't know what kind of
> analysis you want to do and what you want to use the analysis data).
> Have you looked at Pure data?  puredata.info.  Perhaps this is a
> little more high-level than CSound or SC (or even chuck).  Also, there
> are python wrappers for csound so you can script the csound shebang
> with python, if you're so inclined.  So, if PySndObj doesn't cut if
> for you, do it with pyCSound.
>
> >To use Chuck to
> > do this, I will need to learn YET ANOTHER LANGUAGE called OSC
> > or something, which will talk to messages from Python (which are
> > messages originating in my phone coming via Bluetooth) so I can
> > pretty much give up on realtime.
>
> OSC is a protocol.  It should not be needed for such simple task as
> reading the audio port, analysing the signal and (insert your action
> here).  However, if you intend to control your computer by messages
> you type on your phone, you can certainly forget about realtime,
> unless you're a hyper-fast phone-keypad-typist.
>
> >
> > I hate Python. Ugh, no! I love it, but I hate where I am with this
> > damn project.
>
> Whining is certainly not going to help you.  What will help, however,
> is that you think about what you want to achieve, clearly state your
> needs, problems and issues and then write to the appropriate mailing
> list.
>
> Regards,
>
> ./MiS
>
> >
> > *looks despondently at the wall picture of Lord Shiva,
> > who has a familiar serpent tied around his neck like a
> > scarf*
> >
> >
> >  -------
> > 1/f   )))
> > -------
> > http://www.algomantra.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/17/07, robin.escalation <robin.escalation at acm.org> wrote:
> > > --- AlgoMantra <algomantra at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you prepare your files and code in advance and then just chuck
> > > > the
> > > > shreds in and out of the VM, it really is a a bit like sequencing,
> > > > rather
> > > > than livecoding. And if I change the code in the file, save it,
> > > > then the
> > > > effects don't appear live, do they?
> > >
> > > In my little free time that I am spending with ChucK I am trying to
> > > figure this out as well! The best I get is editing one file while
> > > another is playing. This feels more like batch programming than real
> > > time.
> > >
> > > > Maybe i'm missing something freakin obvious, but I'm so frustrated
> > > > having had to learn Csound, Chuck, SuperCollider and all sorts of
> > > > new languages just because Python did not provide me with a simple
> > > > audio processing module. All I wanted to do using Python was
> > > > analyse the sound
> > > > of a live flute playing and plot its frequency, and other
> > > > characteristics,
> > > > straight off the audio port.
> > >
> > > It is annoying that no-one has wrapped a decent library for Python.
> > > But haver you checked out my article on this topic? It could be that
> > > if you have simple needs PyMedia or one of the other mentioned tools
> > > might do.
> > >
> > > Surf:
> > >
> >
> http://diagrammes-modernes.blogspot.com/2007/08/music-control-tools-python-based.html
> > >
> > > -- robin
> > >
> > > -----
> > > Robin Parmar
> > > robinparmar.com
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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