[coniks] Questions for okTurtles CONIKS review
contact at taoeffect.com
Wed Jan 18 01:36:50 EST 2017
Thank so much Marcela for this comprehensive answer! It was very helpful and informative, and per your advice I've gone ahead and opened an issue in the coniks-spec repo to start a discussion about safer account recovery mechanisms:
I very much look forward to continuing to explore the details of CONIKS and follow its progress. :-)
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA.
> On Jan 16, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Marcela S. Melara <melara at CS.Princeton.EDU <mailto:melara at CS.Princeton.EDU>> wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> Sorry this response took a little longer than anticipated. Thank you for
> your positive review of CONIKS, and all of your feedback on the CONIKS
> 2.0 paper, which wasn't published at a peer-reviewed venue. I look
> forward to reading your comparison with CT and other approaches.
> My answers are in-line.
>> Question 1: Is there a formal RFC-like specification for CONIKS being
>> developed, and if so, where is it?
> We've started laying the groundwork for an RFC-like specification, but
> haven't begun writing it yet. We've dedicated the coniks-spec  repo
> to maintain our specification documents, and you'll find a few
> preliminary write-ups. But I'd like to emphasize that they don't follow
> any RFC-style language guidelines yet.
>> One significant concern that I had while reading the paper is the use of
>> "should" in places where I would have expected the word "must" to be.
>> This was especially notable on page 10 of the document.
> The CONIKS 2.0 paper is the final report for Michael's semester of
> independent research (a requirement of all CS majors at Princeton). The
> report is meant as a final write-up of the semester-long project, and
> not as a formal specification of the protocol. Hence, the language does
> not follow RFC guidelines. We published the CONIKS 2.0 report as it is
> the first document to address the key change protocol, which is
> incomplete in the original paper, as well as to get community feedback
> on our design. But a more formal specification of this protocol will be
> included in our RFC-like documents.
>> In IETF-style RFCs, the words "should" and "must" have very specific,
>> concrete meanings when it comes to determining whether an implementation
>> conforms to the specification or not. Many of the "should"s on page 10,
>> /should /(heh) have been "must"s if CONIKS is to provide real security
>> Were these just oversights, or are these "should"s to be interpreted per
>> SHOULD in RFC 2119?
> I completely agree with you here. Reading through page 10 of the report
> again, in an RFC-like specification those sentences that say "should"
> ought to say "must", with one exception:
> "If the `allowsUnsignedKeychange` flag is set to TRUE, an unauthorized
> key change should not be considered a violation."
>> Question 2: Is all of the data, including the options, ALWAYS signed by
>> the user's public key?
>> There is a very curious `allowsUnsignedKeychange` flag that could
>> undermine all of the MITM security offered by CONIKS, but only if its
>> setting is not signed by the user's registered public key.
>> Is this setting, along with all over
>> settings/options/data/configurations signed by the user's public key?
> Yes. In addition, page 8 of the report states: "Once the
> `allowsUnsignedKeychange` flag is set to
> FALSE, the user can sign a request to change that flag."
>> Or can it be signed by the server's public key, or not signed at all?
> The report states that if `allowsUnsignedKeychange` is set to TRUE, all
> provider-initiated key changes should be signed by the provider; this
> also applies to other security settings for a particular user. In the
> prototype implementation of key changes in coniks-java, which Michael
> coded as part of his project, changes to an account with
> `allowsUnsignedKeychange = TRUE` don't require any signature. A more
> formal implementation of the protocol could require a provider signature
> for any changes to an account with an `allowsUnsignedKeychange = TRUE`
> configuration. But it's important to note that, even if the provider
> signs any user data/configuration changes, the user will still have to
> determine whether the change was legitimate or not. For this reason, we
> haven't made provider signatures on provider-initiated changes a
>> Question 3: Will CONIKS force users to trust untrustworthy entities for
>> private key resets, or will CONIKS allow users to specify the entities
>> whom they trust to re-create their identities for them?
>> In DPKI, we solved this problem by allowed the user to specify the
>> entities that they trust to restore their identity for them. This can be
>> accomplished simply by letting the user specify the public keys and the
>> n-of-m parameters (of those keys) that is necessary to create broadcast
>> a message that signs a new public key on behalf of the user.
>> Example: Alice loses her phone. Alice uses the app to generate a new
>> keypair and sends a request to the friends she authorized to sign it.
> We haven't considered such an approach yet, but at first glance, this
> seems like a sound alternative to simply allowing unsigned changes in
> the case of a private key loss. In general, we're interested in
> exploring any features that may improve the security of our current
> design; if you would like to suggest this as a possible feature for one
> of our implementations, I would encourage you to open an issue in our
> coniks-spec repo to get a discussion started.
>> Question 4: What "password"?
>> On page 9, there is a strange sentence that is not elaborated, "If for
>> some reason Alice forgets her private key, she can ask the provider to
>> reset her password."
>> This sentence does not make sense for two reasons:
>> 1. Nobody remembers their private key.
>> 2. A password is not a private key.
>> What password is this and how is it associated with the private key and
>> how can the provider "reset" it without overriding the private key.
> You're right, as written this sentence makes little sense. This sentence
> should read: "If ... Alice *loses* her private key..." This entire
> section (4.4) assumes that users (or rather, clients) derive their key
> pairs from a password, and that users must "call", or otherwise
> communicate out of band with, the provider to reset their password if
> they lose their private key. Although the report unfortunately fails to
> mention this very important detail, this is an approach that Michael
> explored as part of the account recovery protocol. Hence, the
> association of private keys and passwords. Since a private key loss
> requires a password reset and such a reset does override the private
> key, the report goes on to state that Alice has to let her contacts know
> to expect an unsigned key change at the specified epoch. Now, because we
> don't want to rely on users to generate good passwords to generate
> strong key pairs in practice, our implementations do not use this
> particular approach. So, as I mentioned above, we certainly welcome
> alternative approaches for account recovery.
> Finally, to address your question about CONIKS' scalability that you
> asked me on Twitter: "What are the scaling properties of CONIKS (either
> hard data, or theoretical predictions)"? The evaluation in the CONIKS
> paper (Section 5.3, "Server Overheads") provides the results of an
> experiment we ran on one of our research lab servers with an early
> version of our coniks-java implementation to measure the scale of our
> Merkle tree implementation. Our paper also provides the results of an
> experiment to measure the client overhead to verify an authentication
> path (Section 5.3 "Lookup Cost"). The numbers we provide for the
> download sizes on the client side, on the other hand, are theoretical
> calculations. We've also run a few similar benchmarks on our coniks-go
> Merkle tree implementation, and will post the results by the end of the
> week. We don't currently have data for verification overheads and
> download sizes on the client, but I've opened an issue to address this .
> I hope this all makes sense!
>  https://github.com/coniks-sys/coniks-spec <https://github.com/coniks-sys/coniks-spec>
>  https://github.com/coniks-sys/coniks-go/issues/162 <https://github.com/coniks-sys/coniks-go/issues/162>
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