@mike again. I made a little video showing the max equivalent of the
principle I'm hoping to be able to apply in ChucK: http://vimeo.com/9852367
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Tomasz Kaye's brain wrote: @mike I'm not sure about Supercollider, but in max, i generally use the svf~
object: a state variable filter with separate outputs for LPF HPF BPF and
band stop. It doesn't blow up when you modulate its cutoff or resonance
inputs, so it's very straightforward to plug into subtractive synthesis
patches. I'm looking for a similarly 'tolerant' filter ugen (or collection
of ugens) in ChucK. 2010/3/1 mike clemow Curious... Is there a difference between the way that filters blow up in, say,
Supercollider than there is in Chuck? Because my understanding is that
those algorithms just... blow up, if you push on them too much. Am I wrong
here? It wouldn't be the first time... ;) Mike 2010/3/1 Tomasz Kaye's brain About the filter problem: does it mean that currently no one is using chuck for classic sutractive synthesis patches like: Oscillators -> Filters (cuttof driven by an ADSR) -> Amplifier (Level
driven by an ADSR) ? Are people just not doing this kind of routing in ChucK yet, or are there
workarounds that avoid the filters going unstable when modulated in this
way? (Sorry to keep on about this, but I'm really keen to keep using ChucK if
at all possible) 2010/2/17 mike clemow OT: 2010/2/16 Andrew C. Smith Seems that ChucK can crash brains, not just computers! Chuck's filter code is actually written in Sumerian. The Goddess
Asherah created Chuck to erase peoples' minds and make them worship her.
The sound is actually a nam-shub and if you hear it, you will lose your wits
and start mumbling Sumerian syllables... (sorry, i couldn't help this outburst. i finished the book just a few
short weeks ago. ;) -Mike Actually, my other solution was to run the audio through Jack and into
Logic, where I can do a much better job of controlling the volume. This
actually doesn't distort (since the distortion comes at the dac level), and
changes the sound entirely. Anyway, just an option. -Andrew On Feb 16, 2010, at 5:03 PM, Kassen wrote: 2010/2/16 Stefan Blixt If you do SinOsc s=> dac and the 100.0 => s.gain, are you then able to
blow a speaker on a Mac laptop even if it's main volume is turned down?
That's the curious thing to me, how the filter messes up so badly it makes
my MacBook's speaker scream even though the volume is almost down to zero. 100? Try something like this value for a output; 242210436022272.0
That's a actual recorded output of .last(). I'm not sure what would
happen if something of that volume would be played back on real speakers;
there is probably a UN convention against that kind of thing ;-). From what I understand of the situation you wouldn't blow the speaker.
If Apple was smart they put in a pre-amp that's slightly smaller than the
maximum load of the speaker yet slightly over-speced for the output of the
dac to keep repairs down. But yes; apparently you will can get a very high
volume even though the (software) fader is down. This is what we know. Then from that I speculated (and unless something more credible comes
by I think it's a good theory) that Apple is doing everything in float (with
virtually unlimited headroom for practical applications), setting the master
volume with a floating point multiplication, and handing the resultant value
to the dac where inevitably it will be turned into a plain integer. In this
case that integer will be the highest volume the poor little dac can take.
If that's not it I can't imagine why +/- some 15 digit number would have a
higher amplitude than +/-1, as a final output, post master fader. This is cheap compared to tweaking the voltage on the final hardware
amp (which would always preserve the full bit-range) and probably sounds a
lot better than going integer and throwing away a lot of bits at low volume,
but it fails to take into account that we may not just turn the volume down
for a more pleasant listen but also to protect our ears. Combine that with
with potentially very sensitive studio or DJ headphones and you have a
situation that may lead to hearing damage. I know that my own pro DJ
headphones will output a lot more volume than my mid-range earbuds at the
same volume setting for a headphone jack. IMHO this would be a oversight by Apple and I'm a bit surprised there
hasn't been a storm of practical joke mails aimed at OSX users featuring
videoclips embedding floating-point audio. I'd offer at least a optional
output limiter like what has been proposed for mp3 players. I don't believe
in those for protecting children's ears through mandatory regulation because
of the differences in headphone output volume, but for user-set protection
it might be a good idea. Of course ChucK is a bit more likely to cause this
sort of issue than the average off-the-shelf audio player. Here is the original topic if you'd like to try to reproduce the
findings so far; http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37921 Yours,
Kas.
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