Re: [chuck-users] how is this "on the fly"?

18 Sep 2007


      Right. I totally realise now that you own this list.


On 9/18/07, Michal Seta  wrote:
...
Thank you for your comments.
This has gone off-topic enough.
./MiS
...
Dear Michal Seta,
I admit I was a bit tired at the end of a long, frustrating week
and my email may have been a bit "whiny". I apologise. Here
are answers to some of your questions/doubts:
What I don't understand is why do you learn CSound, SuperCollider,
ChucK if all you want to do is use Python?
Because some of my friends suggested that I do, and I was curious to
learn
new stuff.
For reasons of speed, simplicity and elegance I try to stick to Python.
It
is not a hard and fast rule so much as an aesthetic.
The question is a little vague so he pointed you in *one* direction.
I can't begin to see how you could have followed our entire private
exchange,
which is very different from the short public summary I gave you.
I think you are misunderstanding.  He is telling you to look into the
recorder example so that you can see how to capture live audio.
Have YOU looked into that example? It's crawling with reindeers singing
Jingle Bells.
You mean you acquire knowledge through luck?  Or am I misunderstanding
 something.
How one acquires knowledge is one's own business. How one can show it
off
is what seems to be yours. You have some really bizarre assumptions
about
who I might be and what I might not know.
Now, do you mean there are only 2-3 new media artists in India?
 Strange.   A random Google hit:
http://www.newmedia.sunderland
...
.ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm
suggests that there are a few more.
A random Google search on "Michal Seta"  suggests that you probably
don't
exist, and if you do - your existence is not too consequential for
mankind.
Next time, try selling your work in the art district of Bombay to earn
your
dinner.
You'll probably run into me, and the only other artist in "new media"
who is
not
even mentioned on that strange and funny website you quote as divine
On 9/17/07, AlgoMantra  wrote:
proof.
...
"new media", now I wonder what you understand by that phrase. The phrase
itself, right?
Whining is certainly not going to help you.  What will help, however,
 is that you think about what you want to achieve, clearly state your
needs, problems and issues and then write to the appropriate mailing
list.
You seem to have it all figured out. That is the universal mantra of
success, right?
Good luck, mate! You're going to need it.
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http://www.algomantra.com
On 9/17/07, Michal Seta < mis@artengine.ca> wrote:
...
Hi,
On 9/17/07, AlgoMantra < algomantra@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
...
Allow me to restate my objective. I want "to read the sound of a
...
flute
...
...
off the audio port in realtime, and analyse it using Python". Now...
What I don't understand is why do you learn CSound, SuperCollider,
ChucK if all you want to do is use Python?
...
This is a reply to me from one of the main PySndObj developers:
thinking a little more about this, I think there is no
...
...
...
there (I need to add one...). So you can try csound:
See that? at least he understood my question somewhat.
The question is a little vague so he pointed you in *one* direction.
...
Now here's a response from the gentleman at Pymedia:
Can you please check voice_recorder_player.py or voice_recorder.py
from examples tar ball ?May be it will resolve most of the issues.
He is answering a completely different question! I'm talking about
intercepting data off a port, and he's talking of recording it.
I think you are misunderstanding.  He is telling you to look into the
recorder example so that you can see how to capture live audio.
...
I had seen
the example he's talking about but it made no sense in the context.
Which context?  The context of capturing real-time audio?  Or the
context of doing "an analysis" on the signal.  It certainly makes no
sense in the latter but a lot in the former.
...
And I was kinda lucky in that I know what a tarball is
You mean you acquire knowledge through luck?  Or am I misunderstanding
something.
...
- most artists
who dabble in technology come from diverse background. ( I am one
of the 2 or 3 new media artists in India). So I find it odd that
when
newbies
ask questions, developers answer very sweetly, but in code.
All artists come from diverse backgrounds.  And regardless of what you
dabble at, you still have to follow the learning path, especially if
you want to become somewhat proficient at it.  If computers are your
thing, you have to learn some basics about the computer and operating
systems and how to use different applications.  If you are proficient
enough with computers to start coding audio applications in python and
you don't state your background but, instead, you ask a vague
question, it is understandable that developers assume that you know
what you're talking about.  If you need hand-holding, which all
newbies of the world need, you have say so and state your problem with
as much precision as possible so that those who would like to help you
do not need to do much guess work.
Now, do you mean there are only 2-3 new media artists in India?
Strange.   A random Google hit:
http://www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/nmcr/india/ilinks.htm
...
suggests that there are a few more.
...
Perhaps the truth really is that adc => FFT => dac, which is so
simple
...
for ChucK etc - has no analog in Python, and people are just too
 ashamed to admit that they don't know how its done.
I never used Python for audio but I would assume that it, in fact, is
possible.  In any case, I find it hard to believe that after having
learned CSound and SuperCollider you have not been able to achieve you
goal of reading live flute and analysing it (I don't know what kind of
analysis you want to do and what you want to use the analysis data).
Have you looked at Pure data?  puredata.info.  Perhaps this is a
little more high-level than CSound or SC (or even chuck).  Also, there
are python wrappers for csound so you can script the csound shebang
with python, if you're so inclined.  So, if PySndObj doesn't cut if
for you, do it with pyCSound.
...
To use Chuck to
do this, I will need to learn YET ANOTHER LANGUAGE called OSC
or something, which will talk to messages from Python (which are
messages originating in my phone coming via Bluetooth) so I can
pretty much give up on realtime.
OSC is a protocol.  It should not be needed for such simple task as
reading the audio port, analysing the signal and (insert your action
here).  However, if you intend to control your computer by messages
you type on your phone, you can certainly forget about realtime,
unless you're a hyper-fast phone-keypad-typist.
...
I hate Python. Ugh, no! I love it, but I hate where I am with this
damn project.
Whining is certainly not going to help you.  What will help, however,
is that you think about what you want to achieve, clearly state your
needs, problems and issues and then write to the appropriate mailing
list.
Regards,
./MiS
...
*looks despondently at the wall picture of Lord Shiva,
who has a familiar serpent tied around his neck like a
scarf*
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1/f   )))
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http://www.algomantra.com
On 9/17/07, robin.escalation  wrote:
...
--- AlgoMantra  wrote:
...
If you prepare your files and code in advance and then just
chuck
...
...
...
the
shreds in and out of the VM, it really is a a bit like
sequencing,
rather
than livecoding. And if I change the code in the file, save it,
then the
effects don't appear live, do they?
In my little free time that I am spending with ChucK I am trying
to
figure this out as well! The best I get is editing one file while
another is playing. This feels more like batch programming than
real
time.
...
Maybe i'm missing something freakin obvious, but I'm so
frustrated
having had to learn Csound, Chuck, SuperCollider and all sorts
of
new languages just because Python did not provide me with a
simple
audio processing module. All I wanted to do using Python was
analyse the sound
of a live flute playing and plot its frequency, and other
characteristics,
straight off the audio port.
It is annoying that no-one has wrapped a decent library for
Python.
But haver you checked out my article on this topic? It could be
live
pitch  tracker
that
...
...
...
...
if you have simple needs PyMedia or one of the other mentioned
tools
might do.
Surf:
http://diagrammes-modernes.blogspot.com/2007/08/music-control-tools-python-b...
...
...
...
...
-- robin
-----
Robin Parmar
robinparmar.com
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