hid related "illegal operation"

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Kassen

29 May 2007 29 May '07

4:42 p.m.

Dear ChucKists, A possible HID issue... Since a while I'm using a new (for me) PS2 => USB converter for my game devices, it's by a brand called "EMS" and it has some advantages over other ones like being able to accomodate two devices on one USB connector, it has support for dancepads (meaning you can push left&right at the same time, something that some other converters tend to crash on) and it can map buttons to keyboard keys. Overall that means it's good and usefull, it was recomended by some sites about those dance games and those sites are quite demanding on converters since both timing and this dancepad-issue are very important to them. However, it also has "modes" called "compattible" and "normal". I'm not at all sure right now what those do exactly (sparse English documentation by Asian manifacturers...). Here comes the problem; ChucK will crash outright upon initiating the device if those aren't set exactly right. Hence, in my interpertation of the situation, there is something, somewhere, in our HID device amis. It would be fine with me for ChucK to complain about bad settings but simply crashing completely with no notification seems wrong. Clearly; "it sometimes crashes" isn't enough, so; should I find and send more data and if so what? Spencer? Also; has anybody tried hooking up a PS3 "Sixaxis" to ChucK on Windows with working motion sensing? That one looks nice for modulations and rocking the Shakers but I'd like to know it'll work because that's the only thing I'd use a Sixaxis for right now since so far nothing else about the PS3 tickles by fancy to the tune of 600 bucks. Cheers, Kas.

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Loscha

29 May 29 May

8:35 p.m.

Greetings Kas & ChucKs; Interesting you bring up the PS3 controllers. Ross Bencina (Audio Mulch) gave a talk at Melbourne Dorkbot last month about wanting to interface the PS3 controller to the computer. Most of the Bluetooth implementation is standard, but, the thing that he (and everyone else, it seems) is they can't quite crack how to get certain modes of the Accelerometers transmitting data, that making it no better than a PS2 controller. The problem people are having is the ridiculous cost of air-borne packet sniffers (which is something I noticed on sites trying to fully decode the Wii protocol, too). Re: Wii Has anyone tried using ChucK with a Wii controller? I've been looking at getting one, but, they're still $60au new in stores, and they're not quite new enough to turn up 2nd hand in hock shops yet. I'm realistically hoping to hit that second objective in about 2 months from now. Should be about $25 for one then. I've seen lots of programs for the PC to interface with the Wii Remote, so, one way or the other, I'll be able to make it do "Something". I've not seen specific mention of Wii on any ChucK sites as of yet. Is it like "special:dope" and hiding somewhere behind the curtains? -Edward http://-www.loscha.com/chuck On 5/30/07, Kassen wrote:

...

Dear ChucKists,

A possible HID issue...

Since a while I'm using a new (for me) PS2 => USB converter for my game devices, it's by a brand called "EMS" and it has some advantages over other ones like being able to accomodate two devices on one USB connector, it has support for dancepads (meaning you can push left&right at the same time, something that some other converters tend to crash on) and it can map buttons to keyboard keys. Overall that means it's good and usefull, it was recomended by some sites about those dance games and those sites are quite demanding on converters since both timing and this dancepad-issue are very important to them.

However, it also has "modes" called "compattible" and "normal". I'm not at all sure right now what those do exactly (sparse English documentation by Asian manifacturers...). Here comes the problem; ChucK will crash outright upon initiating the device if those aren't set exactly right. Hence, in my interpertation of the situation, there is something, somewhere, in our HID device amis. It would be fine with me for ChucK to complain about bad settings but simply crashing completely with no notification seems wrong.

Clearly; "it sometimes crashes" isn't enough, so; should I find and send more data and if so what? Spencer?

Also; has anybody tried hooking up a PS3 "Sixaxis" to ChucK on Windows with working motion sensing? That one looks nice for modulations and rocking the Shakers but I'd like to know it'll work because that's the only thing I'd use a Sixaxis for right now since so far nothing else about the PS3 tickles by fancy to the tune of 600 bucks.

Cheers, Kas.

_______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

-- www.loscha.com

ssalazar＠CS.Princeton.EDU

9:20 p.m.

Kassen, Hmm, sounds pretty annoying. Do you happen to have Cygwin installed on any of your machines? If you did, or were willing to install it, I could walk you through getting a stacktrace of the crash from gdb, which would be the most helpful information to debug this. (Cygwin is pretty lightweight and easily removed, if you are worried about system bloat...) There may also be some error-condition checking that should be happening but is not happening in ChucK's HID implementation--Ill browse through that and see if anything looks suspicious. Edward,

...

Interesting you bring up the PS3 controllers. Ross Bencina (Audio Mulch) gave a talk at Melbourne Dorkbot last month about wanting to interface the PS3 controller to the computer. Most of the Bluetooth implementation is standard, but, the thing that he (and everyone else, it seems) is they can't quite crack how to get certain modes of the Accelerometers transmitting data, that making it no better than a PS2 controller.

The problem people are having is the ridiculous cost of air-borne packet sniffers (which is something I noticed on sites trying to fully decode the Wii protocol, too).

I read on Wikipedia that PS3 controllers could be used as a standard HID on a PC when using the USB connector, after installing a driver. It is possible that the driver would not expose the accelerometer functionality though. If not, USB sniffers are a lot cheaper than Bluetooth sniffers, so figuring out the USB packets the PS3 uses to setup/read the accelerometer could be a lot easier if you don't particularly need wirelessness. Id be interested in hacking that a bit myself, but Im not very inclined to shell out $600 for a PS3... if anyone did figure out how exactly to access the accelerometers, I would totally help out with/do a ChucK implementation.

...

Re: Wii Has anyone tried using ChucK with a Wii controller? I've been looking at getting one, but, they're still $60au new in stores, and they're not quite new enough to turn up 2nd hand in hock shops yet. I'm realistically hoping to hit that second objective in about 2 months from now. Should be about $25 for one then. I've seen lots of programs for the PC to interface with the Wii Remote, so, one way or the other, I'll be able to make it do "Something".

I've not seen specific mention of Wii on any ChucK sites as of yet. Is it like "special:dope" and hiding somewhere behind the curtains?

I've been working on Wii support on Mac OS X for a while. I've gotten everything on the standard remote working except the speaker, with reasonable reliability. Also, nunchuk support is on its way. I'd like to get things nice and cross platform, but Mac OS X is the only setup I have right now that has access to a Bluetooth adapter. Its all disabled though, unless a certain compile time flag is set. But I can see this becoming less hidden away in the future (probably after I improve reliability and make it cross platform). But if anyone was interested in getting this going now, that should be pretty doable. spencer

...

-Edward

http://-www.loscha.com/chuck

On 5/30/07, Kassen wrote:

...
Dear ChucKists,

A possible HID issue...

Since a while I'm using a new (for me) PS2 => USB converter for my game devices, it's by a brand called "EMS" and it has some advantages over other ones like being able to accomodate two devices on one USB connector, it has support for dancepads (meaning you can push left&right at the same time, something that some other converters tend to crash on) and it can map buttons to keyboard keys. Overall that means it's good and usefull, it was recomended by some sites about those dance games and those sites are quite demanding on converters since both timing and this dancepad-issue are very important to them.

However, it also has "modes" called "compattible" and "normal". I'm not at all sure right now what those do exactly (sparse English documentation by Asian manifacturers...). Here comes the problem; ChucK will crash outright upon initiating the device if those aren't set exactly right. Hence, in my interpertation of the situation, there is something, somewhere, in our HID device amis. It would be fine with me for ChucK to complain about bad settings but simply crashing completely with no notification seems wrong.

Clearly; "it sometimes crashes" isn't enough, so; should I find and send more data and if so what? Spencer?

Also; has anybody tried hooking up a PS3 "Sixaxis" to ChucK on Windows with working motion sensing? That one looks nice for modulations and rocking the Shakers but I'd like to know it'll work because that's the only thing I'd use a Sixaxis for right now since so far nothing else about the PS3 tickles by fancy to the tune of 600 bucks.

Cheers, Kas.

_______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

-- www.loscha.com _______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

Kassen

30 May 30 May

8:03 a.m.

Spencer wrote:

...

Kassen, Hmm, sounds pretty annoying.

What's realy anoying is that somehow that driver doesn't want to remember it's settings so far but I think it can. Aside from that it's a good converter so... Do you happen to have Cygwin installed on

...

any of your machines? If you did, or were willing to install it, I could walk you through getting a stacktrace of the crash from gdb, which would be the most helpful information to debug this. (Cygwin is pretty lightweight and easily removed, if you are worried about system bloat...)

Actually I think it would be good for me to install that anyway, I like the Unix style prompt much better then the XP one. I suppose the XP one is more powerfull then the DOS based one I got used to but it removed some commands I found usefull and I can't get used to that. So, yeah, let's do that. I'll install it somewhere today or tomorow and we'll go through it off-list as stack-traces sound quite boring to inflict on the rest. There may also be some error-condition checking that should be

...

happening but is not happening in ChucK's HID implementation--Ill browse through that and see if anything looks suspicious.

Cool! Edward;

...

...
Interesting you bring up the PS3 controllers. Ross Bencina (Audio Mulch) gave a talk at Melbourne Dorkbot last month about wanting to interface the PS3 controller to the computer. Most of the Bluetooth implementation is standard, but, the thing that he (and everyone else, it seems) is they can't quite crack how to get certain modes of the Accelerometers transmitting data, that making it no better than a PS2 controller.

Yes, and the accelerometers are exactly what I'm lusting after. I have a desent concept for playing keyboard style notes on a PS2joypad but this covers all the buttons and the directional pad and leaves no thumbs free for the sticks so for modulations those would be perfect. Spencer; I read on Wikipedia that PS3 controllers could be used as a standard

...

HID on a PC when using the USB connector, after installing a driver.

That's right. I don't understand why it needs a driver but Sony isn't particularly well known for sticking to perfectly fine standards. On the plus side; Sony did implement pressure-sensitive buttons on the PS2 which are a pritty nice idea, sadly that's very different from PC/Mac style HID stuff so only one or two converters support that. I'm not sure where the PS3 pad is from that perspective but pressure sensitive buttons would have obvious musical aplications. It is possible that the driver would not expose the accelerometer

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functionality though.

That turned out to be the exact case last time I looked for it but that was a while ago and they were working on this. If not, USB sniffers are a lot cheaper than

...

Bluetooth sniffers, so figuring out the USB packets the PS3 uses to setup/read the accelerometer could be a lot easier if you don't particularly need wirelessness.

Absolutely and likely the protocol is very similar anyway. Id be interested in hacking that a bit

...

myself, but Im not very inclined to shell out $600 for a PS3... if anyone did figure out how exactly to access the accelerometers, I would totally help out with/do a ChucK implementation.

At least you can buy the pads seperately, in the near future there should be third party ones too. Third party gaming devices are great for musicians on a budget, even just those small joysticks were hard to find and very expensive as parts up to resendly; for games you can get those in ready made implementations for very modest prices.

...

I've been working on Wii support on Mac OS X for a while. I've gotten everything on the standard remote working except the speaker, with reasonable reliability. Also, nunchuk support is on its way.

I'd like to get things nice and cross platform, but Mac OS X is the only setup I have right now that has access to a Bluetooth adapter. Its all disabled though, unless a certain compile time flag is set. But I can see this becoming less hidden away in the future (probably after I improve reliability and make it cross platform). But if anyone was interested in getting this going now, that should be pretty doable.

Mac is the only platform I don't have right now but that's great news! Thanks! Kas.

Mike Coats

2:26 a.m.

...

Re: Wii Has anyone tried using ChucK with a Wii controller? I've been looking at getting one, but, they're still $60au new in stores, and they're not quite new enough to turn up 2nd hand in hock shops yet. I'm realistically hoping to hit that second objective in about 2 months from now. Should be about $25 for one then. I've seen lots of programs for the PC to interface with the Wii Remote, so, one way or the other, I'll be able to make it do "Something".

Good Morning Everyone, I've been a lurker here for quite a while, but I thought I'd take a look at this as I do have a wee bit off experience with this one. There are a lot off options to consider to get the Wii controllers working. They are just standard blue tooth devices, so people have created apps that work with them in the past. I MacBook, so my experience is with WiiSabre and Darwiin Remote. The first simply makes lightsabre noises when you wave around the Wii controller, but the second is almost a diagnostic program as it gives full output of the three axis accelerometers on the remote itself and then give information on the accelerometers in the nunchuck as well. The source code to Darwiin Remote is under the BSD License, so there's no real worries about wondering how do they do that, but a better resource could be http://www.wiili.org/index.php/Category:Drivers which contains a whole list or drivers for the wiimote for Mac OS X, Linux and Windows. Even without going the full driver route, Darwiin Remote can be configured to act as a mouse and small "keyboard" so there is a limited interface option available to us already. Hope somebody finds this big bank of text useful, but I've now got to go to work :( -- Kind Regards, Mike Coats FSF Associate Member #4724 Audi TT Owner's Club Member #899 GNU/Linux Registered User #446164

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Kassen
Loscha
Mike Coats
ssalazar＠CS.Princeton.EDU