Kassen wrote:

Good luck!

Thaks!

I'm not in Denmark but love your lineup and will listen to your MP3's.

I am, BTW, of the opinion that if there is ever a "average ChucK performance" that would be cause to quit the whole thing or at least make drastic changes. What a dreadful idea! :¬)

Ok, I meant to say that I'm under the impression that ChucK performances tend to be more experimental or loop based (I could well be wrong). This project often involves almost regular pop-sing structures, like intro, verse, chorus, bridges etc. and part of what I'm doing is being able to improvise the form, so jump to a certain part or repeat parts, etc. It was in no way meant as an offence, just a mere pop-music-ahead warning :-) -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

Kassen wrote:

BTW, I don't know about the Danish market but here those "Realplay" controllers for the Playstation2 were being dumped at bargain prices. 10 Euro for a wireless controller with 3d motion sensing and USB dongle, HID compliant (ignore the game and Playstation logo, it'll work).

Sounds like fun! I'm planning on doing something with the wiimote soonish. To much other stuff to prepare for this gig to have it going ATM, though. -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

Rob; By the way, this may be the same controller that Kassen mentions:

http://www.amazon.com/Catz-Real-World-Bundle-Gametrak/dp/B00125V2I6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1236093078&sr=8-1

On sale through Amazon for $9.99 (though shipping makes it more like $19.99). I'm amused by the idea of controlling ChucK by swinging a little golf club over my head, so I ordered one.

Oh, sorry, no, I meant the ones in this series; http://www.amazon.co.uk/IN2GAMES-Realplay-Puzzlesphere-PS2/dp/B000XJ4ZAY I didn't test the one that you link to but I've been intrigued by that model's positioning sensor as well. On the bright side; that one is by the same company and has USB so my bet would be that it would also be HID compliant, I believe they may have anticipated releasing a game with the same controller for the PC. The ones marked "Realplay" have been tested by me and some friends and despite not mentioning anything about standards they are known to work without complaints with Linux, Mac and Windows, CK, SC and MAX; that's good enough for me. I think the plan was to jump on the Wii bandwagon and profit from the Wii shortage and PS2 install base last years holliday season. This failed; the games "shovel ware" but at discounted prices the sensors are very nice indeed. They are quite sensitive with a jitter of about .25% of their range and the range is nicely shaped as normal tilting will stay in the more modest numbers while you need serious heavy shaking to get to the extremes. Multiple identical controllers can be used on a single laptop (at least 2, I have no idea about the max) but the dongles are speciffic per model. Mysteriously the "hat" switch translates to 4 buttons instead of a normal hat and the devices report having two buttons to te host while I can't find those or connections for them on the actual device. Appologies for going OT but in-depth information on such devices from a perspective like this list's is hard to come by; I had to take a bet on one working because I couldn't find a thing and haven't found a list/forum dedicated to this subject, I hope livecoding purists (does such a person exist?) and those who won't play on anything but weighted hamer-action keys with plyphonic aftertouch will understand ;¬). I have no shares in this company, BTW, which is probably a good thing. Kas.

2009/3/3 Robert Poor :

I'll report back whether or not the Gametrak / PS2 little golf club is HID compliant after I get it.

It's HID-compliant with modification. There's some change you have to make by opening the unit, but I don't think it takes more than a screwdriver. Dan could say more... but it's probably on the Internet somewhere too. I've seen it used with ChucK. -- Tom Lieber http://AllTom.com/

here's the hack: http://x37v.com/x37v/post/2008/08/madcatz-gametrak-mod.html apparently it doesn't work on older version of the gametrak, but works on all of them we've got. they are really cool controllers; they pull out nearly 10 feet, and give 3 axes per joystick, plus a useful pedal. dt On Mar 3, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Kassen wrote:

Tom;

It's HID-compliant with modification. There's some change you have to make by opening the unit, but I don't think it takes more than a screwdriver. Dan could say more... but it's probably on the Internet somewhere too. I've seen it used with ChucK.

I feel this post proves we need a list.

IMHO it's silly that all of this knowledge is so fragmented when a few minutes to write a summary per device could save others lots of time and money. I think Dan plays bowed instruments so his observations on a device like that would be quite interesting.

Yours, Kas.

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2009/3/3 Robert Poor

[Further apologies for cluttering up the mailing list, etc...]

IMHO there is a need for a list/forum/wiki on this topic because we share these concerns between communities like ChucK, SC, PD, MAX, Processing, junXion, etc. yet there is no centralised source of knowledge. The best I've been able to find is reviews of converters by dance game enthousiasts (in dance games timing is extremely critical, or so I hear) I think I'll suggest something like this to the nice people at STEIM, it seems like a natural gap for them to fill as they've been championing musical game-device abuse for a long time.

It's a pity, but the orb-like Puzzlesphere appears to be UK-only.

Ow :¬( Those are nice in a "Shakers for Darth Vader" sort of way. Importing might increase costs beyond the "casual fun" point though.

I'll report back whether or not the Gametrak / PS2 little golf club is HID compliant after I get it.

That would be great! I'm quite interested in those as they do appear to be aimed at more serious golf fans and I'd imagine that factors like position, speed, rotation and so on would all be quite relevant in that context. Golf certainly goes beyond what a plain Wiimote (without the announced extension) could provide and more channels is better. Thanks! Kas.

i gotta just chime in here; i think this controller is awesome! and quite frankly much more interesting that the Wii, which, though wireless, is pretty crude in terms of control. but just my 2 cents! dt On Mar 17, 2009, at 8:52 PM, Robert Poor wrote:

I'm mortally embarrassed to report that the $9.99 controller from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Catz-Real-World-Bundle-Gametrak/dp/B00125V2I6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1236093078&sr=8-1

is anything but wireless. It's wire-ful. More like string-ful: the controller sits on the floor and a pair of retracting strings attach to your "golfing gloves" and reel in and out as you swing a tiny golf club.

Um, anyone want it? It's yours for the cost of shipping. Or if you live in SF, come by and pick it up. It might make for good performance art, but it's not what I'm looking for.

Next mail: related questions about the Wii controllers...

- Rob

On 3 Mar 2009, at 08:00, Robert Poor wrote:

...

[Further apologies for cluttering up the mailing list, etc...]

It's a pity, but the orb-like Puzzlesphere appears to be UK-only. I'll report back whether or not the Gametrak / PS2 little golf club is HID compliant after I get it.

- Rob

On 3 Mar 2009, at 07:48, Kassen wrote:

...

Rob;

By the way, this may be the same controller that Kassen mentions:

http://www.amazon.com/Catz-Real-World-Bundle-Gametrak/dp/B00125V2I6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1236093078&sr=8-1

On sale through Amazon for $9.99 (though shipping makes it more like $19.99). I'm amused by the idea of controlling ChucK by swinging a little golf club over my head, so I ordered one.

Oh, sorry, no, I meant the ones in this series; http://www.amazon.co.uk/IN2GAMES-Realplay-Puzzlesphere-PS2/dp/B000XJ4ZAY

I didn't test the one that you link to but I've been intrigued by that model's positioning sensor as well. On the bright side; that one is by the same company and has USB so my bet would be that it would also be HID compliant, I believe they may have anticipated releasing a game with the same controller for the PC.

The ones marked "Realplay" have been tested by me and some friends and despite not mentioning anything about standards they are known to work without complaints with Linux, Mac and Windows, CK, SC and MAX; that's good enough for me.

I think the plan was to jump on the Wii bandwagon and profit from the Wii shortage and PS2 install base last years holliday season. This failed; the games "shovel ware" but at discounted prices the sensors are very nice indeed. They are quite sensitive with a jitter of about .25% of their range and the range is nicely shaped as normal tilting will stay in the more modest numbers while you need serious heavy shaking to get to the extremes. Multiple identical controllers can be used on a single laptop (at least 2, I have no idea about the max) but the dongles are speciffic per model. Mysteriously the "hat" switch translates to 4 buttons instead of a normal hat and the devices report having two buttons to te host while I can't find those or connections for them on the actual device.

Appologies for going OT but in-depth information on such devices from a perspective like this list's is hard to come by; I had to take a bet on one working because I couldn't find a thing and haven't found a list/forum dedicated to this subject, I hope livecoding purists (does such a person exist?) and those who won't play on anything but weighted hamer-action keys with plyphonic aftertouch will understand ;¬).

I have no shares in this company, BTW, which is probably a good thing.

Kas. _______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

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I'm with Dan here. It's perfect for capturing arm positions in 3D. Think "orchestra conductor." We had one opened up here at NYU last semester for NIME prototyping. It's all geared potentiometers under the hood and it very accurate. -Mike 2009/3/17 Daniel Trueman :

i gotta just chime in here; i think this controller is awesome! and quite frankly much more interesting that the Wii, which, though wireless, is pretty crude in terms of control. but just my 2 cents! dt On Mar 17, 2009, at 8:52 PM, Robert Poor wrote:

I'm mortally embarrassed to report that the $9.99 controller from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Catz-Real-World-Bundle-Gametrak/dp/B00125V2I6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1236093078&sr=8-1 is anything but wireless.  It's wire-ful.  More like string-ful: the controller sits on the floor and a pair of retracting strings attach to your "golfing gloves" and reel in and out as you swing a tiny golf club. Um, anyone want it?  It's yours for the cost of shipping.  Or if you live in SF, come by and pick it up.  It might make for good performance art, but it's not what I'm looking for. Next mail: related questions about the Wii controllers... - Rob

On 3 Mar 2009, at 08:00, Robert Poor wrote:

[Further apologies for cluttering up the mailing list, etc...] It's a pity, but the orb-like Puzzlesphere appears to be UK-only.  I'll report back whether or not the Gametrak / PS2 little golf club is HID compliant after I get it. - Rob On 3 Mar 2009, at 07:48, Kassen wrote:

Rob;

...

By the way, this may be the same controller that Kassen mentions:

http://www.amazon.com/Catz-Real-World-Bundle-Gametrak/dp/B00125V2I6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1236093078&sr=8-1 On sale through Amazon for $9.99 (though shipping makes it more like $19.99).  I'm amused by the idea of controlling ChucK by swinging a little golf club over my head, so I ordered one.

Oh, sorry, no, I meant the ones in this series; http://www.amazon.co.uk/IN2GAMES-Realplay-Puzzlesphere-PS2/dp/B000XJ4ZAY

I didn't test the one that you link to but I've been intrigued by that model's positioning sensor as well. On the bright side; that one is by the same company and has USB so my bet would be that it would also be HID compliant, I believe they may have anticipated releasing a game with the same controller for the PC.

The ones marked "Realplay" have been tested by me and some friends and despite not mentioning anything about standards they are known to work without complaints with Linux, Mac and Windows, CK, SC and MAX; that's good enough for me.

I think the plan was to jump on the Wii bandwagon and profit from the Wii shortage and PS2 install base last years holliday season. This failed; the games "shovel ware" but at discounted prices the sensors are very nice indeed. They are quite sensitive with a jitter of about .25% of their range and the range is nicely shaped as normal tilting will stay in the more modest numbers while you need serious heavy shaking to get to the extremes. Multiple identical controllers can be used on a single laptop (at least 2, I have no idea about the max) but the dongles are speciffic per model. Mysteriously the "hat" switch translates to 4 buttons instead of a normal hat and the devices report having two buttons to te host while I can't find those or connections for them on the actual device.

Appologies for going OT but in-depth information on such devices from a perspective like this list's is hard to come by; I had to take a bet on one working because I couldn't find a thing and haven't found a list/forum dedicated to this subject, I hope livecoding purists (does such a person exist?) and those who won't play on anything but weighted hamer-action keys with plyphonic aftertouch will understand ;¬).

I have no shares in this company, BTW, which is probably a good thing.

Kas. _______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

_______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

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-- http://michaelclemow.com http://semiotech.org

oh, and dan overholt's pedaphonics stuff is made with these: http://vipre.uws.edu.au/tiem/?p=693 d t On Mar 18, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Robert Poor wrote:

On 18 Mar 2009, at 14:30, mike clemow wrote:

...

I'm with Dan here. It's perfect for capturing arm positions in 3D. Think "orchestra conductor." We had one opened up here at NYU last semester for NIME prototyping. It's all geared potentiometers under the hood and it very accurate.

-Mike

Yeah - ten minutes alone with ChucK and the Catz controller has made a believer of me: I whipped together a little program that continually plucks 12 StifKarp notes, each with its own pitch and repeat rate. The volume of each note comes from the 6 axes (and whether the axis is positive or negative). I looked like an upside- down marionette jumping up and down holding onto the controller strings.

Big fun.

- Rob

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There is a musical instrument where the pitch can be controlled, as an alternative to using a keyboard, by how much string you pull out -- the Ondes Martinot. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9UBjrUjwo for a very good demonstration. Perhaps this controller could be adapted to such use. -Jukka On Mar 17, 2009, at 10:38 PM, Kassen wrote:

Rob,

That must be disappointing though I have to say this does sound interesting and exotic as a method of control. I'm certain there must be people in performance art or forms of theatre that involve modern media that must think these are absolutely perfect; "able to track, to 1mm of accuracy, a position in 3D space - at up to 2000 miles per hour! Real World Golf uses Gametrak to measure your swing 60 times per second - in real time." That's not bad at all at 10 bucks!

That said; I wouldn't know what do do with one right here and now either. Erm... a interface for digital puppeteering? Sensor for room- length strings tuned to be used as LFO-type modulation signals? I suppose that in the end our controllers must line up with our needs but I see no reason for mortal embaracement here at all. I hope this one finds a good home and I hope you find something that suits your needs.

Yours, Kas.

2009/3/18 Robert Poor I'm mortally embarrassed to report that the $9.99 controller from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Catz-Real-World-Bundle-Gametrak/dp/B00125V2I6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1236093078&sr=8-1

is anything but wireless. It's wire-ful. More like string-ful: the controller sits on the floor and a pair of retracting strings attach to your "golfing gloves" and reel in and out as you swing a tiny golf club.

Um, anyone want it? It's yours for the cost of shipping. Or if you live in SF, come by and pick it up. It might make for good performance art, but it's not what I'm looking for.

Next mail: related questions about the Wii controllers...

- Rob

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Well. All this talk of the Ondes Martinot and chainsaws have made me reconsider the performance art potential for the Catz / Gametrak controller. When I plug it in, the OS X USB device manager knows its name, but (not surprisingly) chuck --probe doesn't show it. Can anyone offer pointers on what I have to write to make it recognized as an HID device under OS X? - Rob On 18 Mar 2009, at 08:47, Kassen wrote:

Jukka;

There is a musical instrument where the pitch can be controlled, as an alternative to using a keyboard, by how much string you pull out -- the Ondes Martinot. See http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=Yy9UBjrUjwo for a very good demonstration. Perhaps this controller could be adapted to such use.

Excellent example. Also; the Martinot was notoriously unreliable, needing frequent repairs; in some ways you would be better off with this controller and a decent MIDI keyboard.

That, and you could "start" it like it were a chainsaw or lawnmower; that would certainly get rid off the slightly dusty image of the Martinot!

Sorry, I can't resist trying to share my enthusiasm for such concepts.

Kas. _______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

from my earlier post: http://x37v.com/x37v/post/2008/08/madcatz-gametrak-mod.html dt On Mar 18, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Robert Poor wrote:

Well. All this talk of the Ondes Martinot and chainsaws have made me reconsider the performance art potential for the Catz / Gametrak controller. When I plug it in, the OS X USB device manager knows its name, but (not surprisingly) chuck --probe doesn't show it. Can anyone offer pointers on what I have to write to make it recognized as an HID device under OS X?

- Rob

On 18 Mar 2009, at 08:47, Kassen wrote:

...

Jukka;

There is a musical instrument where the pitch can be controlled, as an alternative to using a keyboard, by how much string you pull out -- the Ondes Martinot. See http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=Yy9UBjrUjwo for a very good demonstration. Perhaps this controller could be adapted to such use.

Excellent example. Also; the Martinot was notoriously unreliable, needing frequent repairs; in some ways you would be better off with this controller and a decent MIDI keyboard.

That, and you could "start" it like it were a chainsaw or lawnmower; that would certainly get rid off the slightly dusty image of the Martinot!

Sorry, I can't resist trying to share my enthusiasm for such concepts.

Kas. _______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

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don't credit me; i'm just a user! it is super easy though, which is good, because PLOrk owns, uh, 40 of them! On Mar 18, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Robert Poor wrote:

For the record: Dan Trueman **rawks**. Total elapsed time between receiving his message (with crystal clear instructions on modding the Catz/GameTrack box) to seeing output of all six axes on my screen: 20 minutes. A significant part of that was spent trying to find the storage bin with my Weller Soldering Iron and small tools.

Now I can start to get really silly with this thing. Anyone got a great chainsaw patch? :)

- Rob

On 18 Mar 2009, at 09:16, dan trueman wrote:

...

from my earlier post:

http://x37v.com/x37v/post/2008/08/madcatz-gametrak-mod.html

dt

On Mar 18, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Robert Poor wrote:

...

Well. All this talk of the Ondes Martinot and chainsaws have made me reconsider the performance art potential for the Catz / Gametrak controller. When I plug it in, the OS X USB device manager knows its name, but (not surprisingly) chuck --probe doesn't show it. Can anyone offer pointers on what I have to write to make it recognized as an HID device under OS X?

- Rob

On 18 Mar 2009, at 08:47, Kassen wrote:

...

Jukka;

There is a musical instrument where the pitch can be controlled, as an alternative to using a keyboard, by how much string you pull out -- the Ondes Martinot. See http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=Yy9UBjrUjwo for a very good demonstration. Perhaps this controller could be adapted to such use.

Excellent example. Also; the Martinot was notoriously unreliable, needing frequent repairs; in some ways you would be better off with this controller and a decent MIDI keyboard.

That, and you could "start" it like it were a chainsaw or lawnmower; that would certainly get rid off the slightly dusty image of the Martinot!

Sorry, I can't resist trying to share my enthusiasm for such concepts.

Kas. _______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

_______________________________________________ chuck-users mailing list chuck-users@lists.cs.princeton.edu https://lists.cs.princeton.edu/mailman/listinfo/chuck-users

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